Garments rising at the front.

Ask about specific settings, like fabric properties, or the difference between the sewing tools. These would be things you would expect to see in a software manual.
Post Reply
MarkZ
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2020 7:00 pm

Garments rising at the front.

Post by MarkZ »

So this problem has been manifesting in my MD trials for years...
Any garment I make for upper body (Shirts, T-Shirts, Jackets, etc.) wants to buckle and rise in the direction of the drawn arrows ( see attached ).
Seems to happen regardless of: how correct the anatomy is; simulation modes; fabric presets; how accurate patterns are ( I'm mostly interested in replication of real garments, so I don't have much wiggle room here).
Am I not doing something right, or are things like that only solved by stepping away from real dimensions and properties?
The strain map looks fine, so I'm really unsure what's causing this and quite tired of having to pull down the front of my garments only for it to start rising again a couple simulations later.
Would really like to know what are my options, thanks in advance.
Bonus question: are Fold Strength and Angle sliders supposed to work with GPU simulation?
Attachments
Annotation 2020-06-01 005207.jpg
Annotation 2020-06-01 005207.jpg (100.26 KiB) Viewed 333 times

Rosemaryr
VIP
VIP
Posts: 402
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2015 2:18 am

Re: Garments rising at the front.

Post by Rosemaryr »

It is simply that the front of a body has a longer length than the back, just because of the upper torso (male or female) which juts out a bit more than the shoulder blades. (Look at your own side view image: drop a line from the shoulders down to the hips, then trace the front and back silhouette outlines. Measure it and the front is longer.) You just have to make the hem a bit lower on a shirt's front than the back to compensate, to have the hemline even.... If you have a dress shirt (button-up style) in your closet, take a close look. Most will have longer fronts than backs.


Same thing happens with skirts, but in reverse.. The front falls pretty much straight down from the hips area, but the back juts out. The rear pattern on skirts needs to be longer to compensate.

MarkZ
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2020 7:00 pm

Re: Garments rising at the front.

Post by MarkZ »

Rosemaryr wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 4:18 am
It is simply that the front of a body has a longer length than the back, just because of the upper torso (male or female) which juts out a bit more than the shoulder blades. (Look at your own side view image: drop a line from the shoulders down to the hips, then trace the front and back silhouette outlines. Measure it and the front is longer.) You just have to make the hem a bit lower on a shirt's front than the back to compensate, to have the hemline even.... If you have a dress shirt (button-up style) in your closet, take a close look. Most will have longer fronts than backs.


Same thing happens with skirts, but in reverse.. The front falls pretty much straight down from the hips area, but the back juts out. The rear pattern on skirts needs to be longer to compensate.
That does make sense, I tried making the front pattern a couple centimetres longer in the sleeve section and the form improved slightly.
But is that the way real patterns are made? I'm not sure, cause every t-shirt I put on a hanger seems to be totally even, and sometimes it even feels like the back piece is slightly longer, I also recall seeing some sewing patterns online showing something similar.
I even went as far as to record myself wearing different shirts and noticed a similar effect happening on me as well, although to a lesser extent.
My guess is maybe this is rarely seen in real life because no one ever stands in an A pose with their back straight and a puffed chest :lol:

Rosemaryr
VIP
VIP
Posts: 402
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2015 2:18 am

Re: Garments rising at the front.

Post by Rosemaryr »

Most patterns you find, whether in commercially sold packets, or online, tend to be generalized. They are made for some 'ideal' figure. Mass produced items, like Tshirts, tend to be cut with more cloth or made of a more forgiving fabric, etc. You mention that the back part of your shirts seem longer... that's because they did cut the shirt with the hems even, but the back part hangs lower as it has less surface to cover. But even a forgiving garment often does't truly fit all body shapes. Just look at any picture of a big-bellied person in a Tee.... the belly fabric tends to ride up and gather just above the stomach. It is moving towards an area of the body that stressing the garment less. (This will happen in MD also...if a garment is too tight, it may ride up in the same way during simulations.)
Real world sewing pattern packets, such as from McCall's, etc., include extra markings and outlines for a person to customize the pattern to fit. This is called grading a pattern. It lets a sewer move from the general to the specific, from 'sewing' to 'tailoring'. You have mastered the first, in MD, judging by the image above. Now comes more of the art of tailoring: learning the adjustments needed for a better fitting garment.

(Strange... there seems to be a censor thing happening... the words "l o o s e r" and 'p o t" got deleted. Had to swap out terms. Hmmmm.)

User avatar
LoriGriffiths
Posts: 438
Joined: Mon Jun 08, 2015 4:39 pm

Re: Garments rising at the front.

Post by LoriGriffiths »

Rosemary,
Sorry about the word loss. We updated the forum and it has a very strict censorship list. I tried to thin it out, but I obviously missed some words. I'll remove those two words you tried to use. Let me know, if you find others.

Mark Z,
I love questions like yours. So few people actually try to understand the why of patterns and their fit. I love geeking out on this stuff.

I just released a pattern drafting program on my website that is free. If you really want to understand how patterns are made, give that a try. You can measure your model in MD or use the included sets for an existing MD avatar.

You'll find that these garments fit perfectly and don't have the issues you are experiencing. As Rosemary pointed out, these fit issues are all about clothes made from measurements that don't match the person wearing them.

Lori

MarkZ
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2020 7:00 pm

Re: Garments rising at the front.

Post by MarkZ »

LoriGriffiths wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 10:19 pm
Rosemary,
Sorry about the word loss. We updated the forum and it has a very strict censorship list. I tried to thin it out, but I obviously missed some words. I'll remove those two words you tried to use. Let me know, if you find others.

Mark Z,
I love questions like yours. So few people actually try to understand the why of patterns and their fit. I love geeking out on this stuff.

I just released a pattern drafting program on my website that is free. If you really want to understand how patterns are made, give that a try. You can measure your model in MD or use the included sets for an existing MD avatar.

You'll find that these garments fit perfectly and don't have the issues you are experiencing. As Rosemary pointed out, these fit issues are all about clothes made from measurements that don't match the person wearing them.

Lori
Thanks, I'll check it out!

Post Reply